Curse

Marverick · Nov 29, 2007, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Wow it really takes a lot of thought to "learn" that Ward Against Melee should be placed where your casters are getting thumped by melee and Ward Against Stability should be placed where that wurm is KD'ing everything it's attacking....

Mesmer in Need · Nov 29, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

maybe you should all read before flaming me. i have an opinion, i voiced it. if you want to cry about it, talk to the OP. i didnt say anything mean, or anything objectifying any of you as bad people, yet you all attack me, just because you like necros. if you like them, good for you, i dont, i told you all why, so stop acting like children.

This is not a voice your opinion about the necro thread. This is a why you like them thread. Your original post was to show why you didn't like them... See anything wrong?

Str0b0 · Nov 29, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

I hate to say it Magikarp but umm all builds in this game are 1234567 win, regardless of the class. If you think otherwise you are deluding yourself. I mean come on you get 8 skills to a bar and unless you are swinging a martial weapon then you're hiting the same buttons over and over and over ad nauseum. You can't compare a damage necro, ala SS, to a support class character because their roles are so different as to defy comparison. Damage means spam with spells, bottom line. the more you cast and the faster you cast the more damage you create. Support classes like monk and rit don't have to worry about creating damage. They watch bars and click then press buttons,period. You can say "Oh they have to learn when to...blah blah blah" but if you think SS is about Tab casting then you're wrong. Maybe at one time but since it became much more difficult to spam on recharge an echo SS you now have to know which enemy you cast it on and which enemies that casting will affect so you don't immediately overlap and end up leaving part of the enemy group out of the damage not to mention finding the energy to lay your cover hexes down so your bread and butter SS doesn't get stripped by some do gooder monk.

Moonlit Azure · Nov 29, 2007, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Ritualist? You are kidding, right?

Contrary to popular belief, Ritualists do take skills.

Spirits need to be placed tactically, weapon spells be put on the appropriate party members etc.

Moloch Vein · Nov 29, 2007, 03:26 AM // 03:26

I don't dispute that ritualists can take skill to play well. The same is true for any profession.

What I do point out is that there are several effective builds, for many professions, that take very little skill.

John Panda · Nov 29, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

i agree with magikarp that necros are an easy class to play. i dont believe playing a warrior takes skill at all though other than not being an idiot ritualist blow in pve their healing sucks. why would you take a ritualist over a monk? their healing is not matched at all. Ritualists are a damage support class which is not needed at all in pve however it does take skill to play a good pvp support ritualist as i can tell the difference between some pug and my friend playing

rangers are an easy class to play it just takes common battle awareness that goes along with every profession.

mesmers.. i've yet to explore what they can do although my friends dislike mesmers in pve they are enjoy playing them in pvp

Magikarp · Nov 29, 2007, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

This is not a voice your opinion about the necro thread. This is a why you like them thread. Your original post was to show why you didn't like them... See anything wrong?

again, if you read the OP, it clearly says, if you dont like them, say why. either read the OP, or stop posting, because either way, right now you look silly.

to strobo:

by no means am i saying that the game has some in depth skill analysis that can be asserted to all situations, all im saying is that the necro, ele, dervish, and sin, more or less ram some buttons, and do some good. the average warrior is horrid, and the average derv is worse. a typical pve player new to monking usually is wretched, and a rit could do a team more bad than good if you dont know how to play.

a necro who knows nothing, that has SS, will do better than the average novice warrior with Healing Breeze, Dolyak, and HHs.

sins require timing, and evasive skills (even beyond a caster), and dervs need to know how to manage static heals and damage for energy, and still be an effective melee attacker, leaving eles, who's biggest concern is energy, and necros, who dont even have THAT problem.

we all hit buttons 1-8, but until you understand the full utility of a skill, or how much effort that utility takes, you wont understand my point. in GvG, monks have to think nonstop, precast, and the works.. necros stand and cast. warriors have to know when to drop a spike, evade, frenzy, rush, time KDs, the works... necros spam some skills on melee.. rip an enchant or two. mesmers have one of the hardest jobs. knowing when to cast, countering, knowing when to hold off, knowing when damage is coming their way, the works.. necros try to not get hit or interupted.. then spam some more.

they've changed the metas so many times with their spammable hex overloads, they've added a whole section of hex removal to mainframe utility, and are one of the more dangerous classes to go up against all because of it.

i dont play them, because there are more challenging roles to play, i dont dislike them on my team, i dislike to PLAY them. i have played them, still have mine from 2 years ago, and will still use him as a mule. simple as that.

its called an opinion, and at least i have a reason for it. most of you just say, "oh, i like being a necro, you should too or you're stupid". gj.

Moloch Vein · Nov 29, 2007, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

mesmers have one of the hardest jobs. knowing when to cast, countering, knowing when to hold off, knowing when damage is coming their way, the works..

You truly don't seem to understand that this is exactly the job that's assigned to a necromancer in pvp. Please do not come up with the excuse that this is a pve forum. You're clearly talking about pvp here.

Quote:

necros try to not get hit or interupted.. then spam some more.

Yes, and this is exactly the same thing as you previously mentioned your precious mesmers accomplishing, only worded differently, and with thoroughly unjustified disdain.

Magikarp · Nov 29, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

You truly don't seem to understand that this is exactly the job that's assigned to a necromancer in pvp. Please do not come up with the excuse that this is a pve forum. You're clearly talking about pvp here.

all skills are balanced from pvp, so for me to talk about optimal skill use, i'll use whatever the most optimal, difficult form of gameplay there is in the game, thus, high-end pvp. in pve, you're using the same skills, except over and over more. whats your point?

Ensign · Nov 29, 2007, 06:49 AM // 06:49

As far as casters go, Necromancer bars are consistently some of the easiest to play in the game. There aren't any strong Necro bars that require much more attention than a Clumsiness Mesmer, which is an extremely simple character to play; only the defunct Spirit Spam Ritualists were easier to play than any common variety of Necromancer.

The relative ease of playing a Necromancer is one of its selling points; a new player can perform at a decent level with a Necro very quickly, while a more experienced player can pay more attention to microing heroes or watching the state of a battle in PvP. The other big selling point is how, in a longer fight, the long lasting, strong effects a Necromancer can kick out are some of the strongest available to any caster; they get more milage out of each cast than any other caster.

The flip side of the ease of play of a Necromancer is a low ceiling to go with its high floor. Necromancers are, more than any other caster, locked into what they can do by their skillbar. There is really very little you can do as a player to outplay an opponent, to make some stellar plays and pull a team through a tough spot. It really is a profession that does its job and not much more.

With a decent team and a good build it can be a very relaxing class to play; you simply do your job, and you're a powerful character that more than pulls its weight. But when things start going badly, the inability of the character to be much more than a spectator watching things fall apart keeps me from playing my Necro with regularity.

Deftones_Korn_Unloco · Nov 29, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Hey =]

My original question was just meant to be a general question, as I like to know what other people think, in this case the necromancer. That is why I put in my question description that if you don't like the necromancer, you could state why.

Personally, I do not hold prejudice against Magikarp, as in all honestly, he did nothing but voice an opinion of his own on the necromancer. From my perspective he didn't do anything wrong.
However I do understand both sides of the table; where Magikarp is coming from and where everyone else is coming from. Both make very opinionated discussions it seems.

Should I delete this thread?

I'm really sorry for any inconvenience my thread has caused. I didn't intend nor for see for it to happen.

I just thought it would be nice to see what people's opinions are. Nothing more, nothing less.

Magikarp · Nov 29, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deftones_Korn_Unloco

Hey =]

My original question was just meant to be a general question, as I like to know what other people think, in this case the necromancer. That is why I put in my question description that if you don't like the necromancer, you could state why.

Personally, I do not hold prejudice against Magikarp, as in all honestly, he did nothing but voice an opinion of his own on the necromancer. From my perspective he didn't do anything wrong.
However I do understand both sides of the table; where Magikarp is coming from and where everyone else is coming from. Both make very opinionated discussions it seems.

Should I delete this thread?

I'm really sorry for any inconvenience my thread has caused. I didn't intend nor for see for it to happen.

I just thought it would be nice to see what people's opinions are. Nothing more, nothing less.

no. this is your thread, and i apologize for any thread derailment i may have caused regardless

Moloch Vein · Nov 29, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

all skills are balanced from pvp, so for me to talk about optimal skill use, i'll use whatever the most optimal, difficult form of gameplay there is in the game, thus, high-end pvp. in pve, you're using the same skills, except over and over more. whats your point?

The point was the part of my message you didn't answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The flip side of the ease of play of a Necromancer is a low ceiling to go with its high floor. Necromancers are, more than any other caster, locked into what they can do by their skillbar. There is really very little you can do as a player to outplay an opponent, to make some stellar plays and pull a team through a tough spot. It really is a profession that does its job and not much more.

This is all about what build you are bringing. Of course, if you're running a pure-damage SS nuker build, this is very true.

Quote:

With a decent team and a good build it can be a very relaxing class to play; you simply do your job, and you're a powerful character that more than pulls its weight. But when things start going badly, the inability of the character to be much more than a spectator watching things fall apart keeps me from playing my Necro with regularity.

Also, very correct. Same as an SF ele, a HB monk, or an Obsi-tank when things spiral out of control.

Just out of curiosity, throw me a build that, to you, demonstrates the opposite of what you feel all necromancer builds stand for.

Magikarp · Nov 29, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

The point was the part of my message you didn't answer.

that was your answer. i was talking about skills, so i used reference to where all skills are balanced to: high-end pvp. simple as that.

Quote:

Just out of curiosity, throw me a build that, to you, demonstrates the opposite of what you feel all necromancer builds stand for.

not really sure where you're going with this or what this means. you can't sum up every build into one question for anything, so whats the point of this post at all?

Moloch Vein · Nov 29, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

^ I'm not sure if you're deliberately being dense. Sorry for typing that, but...

Here, I'll show you my post without that pvp thing in it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

mesmers have one of the hardest jobs. knowing when to cast, countering, knowing when to hold off, knowing when damage is coming their way, the works..

You truly don't seem to understand that this is exactly the job that's assigned to a necromancer in pvp.

Quote:

necros try to not get hit or interupted.. then spam some more.

Yes, and this is exactly the same thing as you previously mentioned your precious mesmers accomplishing, only worded differently, and with thoroughly unjustified disdain.

Now, this was the point of the reply, which you did not address.

The request for a build wasn't for you. It was for Ensign.

Magikarp · Nov 29, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

^ I'm not sure if you're deliberately being dense. Sorry for typing that, but...

Here, I'll show you my post without that pvp thing in it:

Now, this was the point of the reply, which you did not address.

The request for a build wasn't for you. It was for Ensign.

one, you didn't post a question, you posted some quotes of mine, then tried to, unsecsussfully, compare necros to mesmers.

two, this thread is old, stale, and full of people who just don't like to reason. im glad you like necros, lots of people do, and im sure lots of people have fun playing them. so go have fun. bye.

upier · Nov 29, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

I fail to see why people are so against the idea of the necro being easy to play.
It's easy to play. But then again - since we are talking about PvE - pretty much everything is.
But - the fact that the necro is easy to play in no way weakens his effectiveness. The necro is like the lovely paragon - easy to play - yet still insanely effective!
Compare that to the mesmer - which is also easy to play - just no where near as effective.
A win-win for the necro! Just goes to show what a superb PvE class it is!

Str0b0 · Nov 29, 2007, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Ok Magikarp I can appreciate your well thought out and mature response to my post. It's a rarity these days. I will grant you that as far as PvP goes necro's are a fairly easy class to get the hang of. The curses and hexes they have are pretty specific in their use, that is Curse A goes on melee Curse B goes on casters. In Pve it can be easy to play but to do so well is another matter entirely. Just as a monk can do ok just clicking the short bars and mashing heals and prots so can a necro do the same by tab casting on enemies. I think though t hat you will agree that the difference between a good monk and an ok monk is in what skills they use when and who they target. The same holds true for a necro, it's just if a necro is mediocre you notice it less.

Magikarp · Nov 29, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Ok Magikarp I can appreciate your well thought out and mature response to my post. It's a rarity these days. I will grant you that as far as PvP goes necro's are a fairly easy class to get the hang of. The curses and hexes they have are pretty specific in their use, that is Curse A goes on melee Curse B goes on casters. In Pve it can be easy to play but to do so well is another matter entirely. Just as a monk can do ok just clicking the short bars and mashing heals and prots so can a necro do the same by tab casting on enemies. I think though t hat you will agree that the difference between a good monk and an ok monk is in what skills they use when and who they target. The same holds true for a necro, it's just if a necro is mediocre you notice it less.

fair enough. i hear keys jingling in the distance.. this thread needs locked lol

Moloch Vein · Nov 29, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

^ Why?

Actually, I'm going to answer the original question, since I don't think I did that.

What I like about the necromancer class and playing it in PvE is its versatility. The fact that I have a necromancer, which I have played through every campaign and every area, and also the fact that this was the first character I created, is a true blessing. As an N, I will always be welcome in groups. Every group wants an SS or an MM necromancer, but that's just the start of available jobs I can fill. Whatever function needs done in the game, if I'm a tiny bit creative I can find a way to solve it, tanking excluded. I can play midline, backline, energy support, offense, defense, healing.

This is the main reason I don't tire of the class.